How Many Police Assets does it take?

Getssum · Post by **Getssum** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:45 am

Most inland waterways the maximum speed a craft can maintain is 5mph 200ft from shore. This may be different for the bay, but I am unsure.

Jetskiing is not the issue, expecially at the speed at which I'm almost positive that this ski was idling (idle - 5mph)

The issue is the monopolistic owner of the shack, who won't invite competition. Who won't even add the idea of jetski support to their lessons. Who would rather their students struggle in light winds very close to shore with an instructor swimming/paddling behind.

Boardsports actually charges for the Lessons in Berkeley, so the city of Alameda gets minimal tax revenue for this use. The rental of kiteboards/windsurfers is done in Alameda so they do get that.

One more thing to remember, which changes jurisdiciton completely is that Crown Beach is a State Park, operated under East Bay Regional Parks District.

Food for thought.

kitechick · Post by **kitechick** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:34 pm

monopolistic owner of the shack, who won't invite competition.

I find it very strange that the East Bay Regional Park - a public entity - is supporting this one monopolistic owner from Berkeley in his efforts with such force and using the public funds which were given to them with no respect.

The arrest was for the act of teaching on Park territory, just that. It is confirmed.

Meaning - the Park and Berkeley business do not just claim the beach theirs but also the Bay Waters "many thousand foot into the Bay" as one instructor at the shack yesterday said and "half way to candlestick" (certainly exxagerated but you hear the mindset) were her words.

What is really going on?

feixaq · Post by **feixaq** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:10 pm

The issue is the monopolistic owner of the shack, who won't invite competition. Who won't even add the idea of jetski support to their lessons. Who would rather their students struggle in light winds very close to shore with an instructor swimming/paddling behind.

Slightly off-topic, but my friends and I took kiting lessons at BoardSports Alameda early last season, and you don't get your money's worth, IMHO. Pretty haphazard instruction, and a lot of theoretical advice on how to self-rescue, water relaunch, bodydrag upwind, get on a plane, etc. but very little practical instruction due to the light winds plus lack of PWC/boat support. This was made even more apparent recently, when one of my friends took a lesson from Edge Kiteboarding @ Sherman; Nat took her through everything in a methodical fashion.

If I could do it all over again, I'd have gone to KiteWindSurf or Nat (instead of learning pretty much everything by reading the forums and via trial & error). Especially after this disappointing incident, it pretty much seals it for me that I won't be patronizing or recommending BoardSports for the foreseeable future. This was a complete waste of taxpayer's money, especially summoning the chopper (if heliskiing prices are anything to go by). While I rarely kite at Alameda anymore, I think I'll go write some letters to the powers-that-be; this needs to be rectified.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

cedralpass · Post by **cedralpass** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:29 pm

With all of these issues above, and some of the rumors i have heard, for example, landing your kite in the water away 200 ft away from people, what is going to happen to beginning kiters?

I am one of them. I am jonesing for some good wind at alameda, but am thinking of just jumping into the waters at crissy. All this controversy is starting to worry me.

Whats a beginner todo? The first time I had issues with my kite in the water, the wind had died, and I couldnít relaunch. All the other riders had landed, but i hadnít paid any attention, as i was way to excited to be riding for 5 or 6 seconds. My lines got into a huge birds nest, and i spent the next day untangling form 2 hours. I really suck at wrapping up the lines, especially when dealing with the water, waves, current etc.

Are there other good beginner places? I live in SF. All the other places i have heard about sound pretty expert. I can barely get up, and I donít mean upwind. I have never really gone downwind, save a record 8 power strokes in lite wind. I am getting better with Kite Control, and was able to walk back with the kite in the air along Alameda, but I here that is banned now, and could be a $250 fine.

Whats a newbie to do? Listen to the police, try out crissy, and expend more taxpayer dollars, by being rescued halfway to farralon? At least a rider, eaten by a shark would get good publicity!

Don Bogardus · Post by **Don Bogardus** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:50 pm

i AM AN INSTRUCTOR AT THE SHACK (BOARDSPORTS).WE PAY 10 PERCENT OF OUR EARNINNGS TO EAST BAY PARKS FROM WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD, KITEWINDSURF DOES NOT PAY ANYTHING.I DO NOT KNOW ALL THE DETAILS, BUT IF ANYBODY THINKS ALL THIS UNINFORMED BLAMING BOARDSPORTS, (FOR WHAT?), IS GOING TO HELP KITERS ANYWHERE, THINK AGAIN. ALSO I THINK BRINGING IN THE MEDIA FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA.I GIVE THE VERY BEST INSTRUCTION WITH WHAT I HAVE TO WORK WITH AS FAR AS WIND GOES, (CHOOSING TO RESCHEDUALE LESSIONS AND NOT GET PAID IF CONDITIONS ARE NOT CONDUCIVE TO A GOOD LEARNING EXPERENCE).WE DO NOW HAVE A BOAT TO WORK WITH, AND ARE GOING TO INCORPORATE IT INTO LESSIONS. JURISDICTION OF INLAND WATER WAYS AND PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY IS THE ISSUE, AND NOT WHO DID WHAT TO WHOM. LET THE COURTS DECIDE!

GVT · Post by **GVT** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:00 pm

So I need clarification. If I take my wife to Alameda in 15Kts with her 8 METER on a weekday and try and teach her the basics of Kiting, WELL AWAY, from other people I could get fined...or worse? I am certainly no pro, however I started kiting in 2000 and have logged over 100 hrs kiting. I am also a US Sailing certified instructor and have been sailing at the PRO level for many years. I'm not trying to brag, my point is that I feel confident that I am qualified to teach my wife how to kite and would never put her, or anyone else, in danger....and I don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to have someone less qualified than me teach her.

Don't my tax dollars go toward paying for that beach? Isn't it public? Jesus! This is California! I come from South Carolina where I would expect this kind of mindset....Can't we protest or something?

Sorry for the rant. I so dearly believe in responsible kiting and proper training, after all I learned in a time where there were no lessons and we were left to experimentation (Remember the Cab. 2001 Black Tip?... SCARY). In the end NO ONE should have that exclusive right. The only thing EVERYONE needs to do is be responsible about how we go about learning.

Hope to meet all of you soon. Look for the big purple Gaastra or the little gold Best Nemesis. (Or if were really brave the little blue North)

Cheers
Gary

jjm · Post by **jjm** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:18 pm

Don Bogardus wrote:i AM AN INSTRUCTOR AT THE SHACK (BOARDSPORTS).WE PAY 10 PERCENT OF OUR EARNINNGS TO EAST BAY PARKS FROM WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD, KITEWINDSURF DOES NOT PAY ANYTHING.I DO NOT KNOW ALL THE DETAILS, BUT IF ANYBODY THINKS ALL THIS UNINFORMED BLAMING BOARDSPORTS, (FOR WHAT?), IS GOING TO HELP KITERS ANYWHERE, THINK AGAIN. ALSO I THINK BRINGING IN THE MEDIA FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS A VERY BAD IDEA.I GIVE THE VERY BEST INSTRUCTION WITH WHAT I HAVE TO WORK WITH AS FAR AS WIND GOES, (CHOOSING TO RESCHEDUALE LESSIONS AND NOT GET PAID IF CONDITIONS ARE NOT CONDUCIVE TO A GOOD LEARNING EXPERENCE).WE DO NOW HAVE A BOAT TO WORK WITH, AND ARE GOING TO INCORPORATE IT INTO LESSIONS. JURISDICTION OF INLAND WATER WAYS AND PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY IS THE ISSUE, AND NOT WHO DID WHAT TO WHOM. LET THE COURTS DECIDE!

Don, for what it is worth, I'm sorry the conversation shifted to an anti-boardsports rant. I think there are two issues, the rights to teach in open water (not coming into or leaving the beach, no commercial conflicts on the beach) and how it was handled.

I think most people would agree that it was handled very poorly. I doesn't sound like there was any need for the instructor to be arrested. A fine or warning would have sufficed. (I'm uninformed, maybe that has happened before?)

If it really was necessary to arrest the instructor, I'd really like to hear an explanation on why it required so much manpower (tax $$$).

Cheers,
Josh

OliverG · Post by **OliverG** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:19 pm

Wow. Just got back into town and read this. My complete thoughts on this and position will be forthcoming...

jjm · Post by **jjm** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:20 pm

cedralpass wrote:With all of these issues above, and some of the rumors i have heard, for example, landing your kite in the water away 200 ft away from people, what is going to happen to beginning kiters?

You might be interested in joining the Alameda sub-forum to voice your opinions/concerns. There are details here on how to join.

kitechick · Post by **kitechick** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:36 pm

For Don:

I have respect for what you are saying: Still this was a LOT of $$$ spent for a comparable ridiculous reason. If a dead body swims to shore, ok, or Bin Laden is paddeling on a surfboard, fine.

This is what I have a problem with. As an Alamedan also with the fact that this was not Alameda police but an autonomous police force <shiver> which had to commute from somewhere.

I pay taxes grumbling but honestly, and - even if they are spent for causes I do not always approve - I expect the official handling the spending to handle the money with an economical sense and financial responsiblity for worhty causes.

The saturday show off displayed the lack of a sense for managing public funds with care.

Whether Boardsports or Kitewindsurf - there are enough students for a couple of schools. More important for the SAFETY of all is that all students CAN get lessons and do not go out without it just because there are not enough offerings. If the park really owns half of the bay then they could just give out a 2nd and 3rd concession right? This way they would get also more money in.
Why not? They should open the overdue bidding and allow a couple of schools more.

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