Snowy plover eggs might shut down Sherman!!

[kief]

any more places you guys want to ride?

yes!
treasure island kite launch back!!
san leandro kite launch
safe parking for point pinole access
pittsburg,well nothing wrong w/access(a long walk out)
just nobody goes there,why?

and larkspur and tuba back
while were at it 'doze alcatraz,and turn it into a park

ceasar chavez,i've done it,more should,the next "it" spot
ready for the taking.

[jbirdmarin]

So basically if we see one of these birds at sherman should we do our upmost to deter it from sticking around?

tastes like chicken

[kitecrazy]

Wonder if Maui Mike has a recipe for plover nuggets?

[elli]

Want to ride: Extend northward and improve the upper launch area in 3rd Ave. There are a few hundred feet of coastline to the north that can be made more accessible.

[calvink]

Are the environmental concerns unfounded because they happen to be inconvenient ? Where's the objectivity ? Environmental impact studies differ greatly from medical studies, BTW. Snowy Plovers generally don't agree to double-blind placebo controlled studies (supposed to be funny.)

The rock-climbing community comes across these sorts of issues all the time. Having a dialogue with environmentalist about their concerns is typically far more productive, and leads to greater climbing access. For example; seasonal restrictions during nesting months rather than blanket bans.

The mountain biking community (in Marin) took on a much more antagonistic approach to maintaining access and as a result, the single-track trails on Mt. Tam have been off limits for years.

If you don't care about endangered species that's your business, but if you want to preserve access to kiting spots then ya gotta get with the program. Dialogue, dialogue, dialogue.

Just my 2 cents.

[jbirdmarin]

Calvin I don't disagree with you about positive impacts of dialogue, but the diff with a Federal endangered species vs most environmental access issues is that access can be changed without public input and regardless of property ownership. Period. That's what's scary: if the US F&WS or NOAA decide that there is impact on a Fed endangered species, they can halt the impact. Even in your literal backyard.

[Greg]

I understand Plover tastes alot like MauiMikes BBQ Chicken :D :D

[Greg]

I understand Plover tastes alot like MauiMikes BBQ Chicken :D :D

[maxsteamer]

Calvin I don't disagree with you about positive impacts of dialogue, but the diff with a Federal endangered species vs most environmental access issues is that access can be changed without public input and regardless of property ownership. Period. That's what's scary: if the US F&WS or NOAA decide that there is impact on a Fed endangered species, they can halt the impact. Even in your literal backyard.

Hello jbird,

I agree 100%.. this is not about access at all ?..It is just down right scary when someone can come out from behind a bush, or a tree, and start yelling get out of here" [-X "!! "this place is for the birds??" [-X The tax payer has the right to a "Vote" on any public issues.

I have talked with some of these people from these groups as alot of them are my age and older..most of them don't care who we are or what we do?? It is all about who has the power.
now with that said..If you should fight fire with fire like a fire fighter. You will gain control.

These days you will not get your foot in the front door without a dialogue and a X president to open up the door. this is a known fact to the old hippies of yesterday. all it takes is someone who knows how to work the system from the bottom to the top. Now the place to start would be SFBA who have a track record of these sort of issues with positive results.

True Story,

My wife and I worked for the State Park Service in SC and we were told to stop surfers at a park called Sunset Beach in the city of Watsonville Ca, on this issue with the eggs.. now being a surfer? I thought this was a killer sand bar, and most of these guys were my bro's .. So I told them.. Say Bra.. stay off the eggs on the bluff or this tiny little plover bird with pluck out your eyes... All the Rangers told me no surfers were ever seen changing on or near the bluff again.

Max be with you " " " :o " OH NO!! is that a PLOVER COMING!!

[jbirdmarin]

The tax payer has the right to a "Vote" on any public issues.

I'm not trying to be a contrarian here, but that is simply not true about the protection of listed Federal endangered species. I think it is important to know what the rules are when confronting this issue. It won't help us to state that the public process wasn't followed. The feds already have congressional power to protect any listed endangered species; they already have public approval - they got it under the original Endangered Species Act (ESA) and its revisions. It's kind of like police - they don't need to ask for approval to change something they think is dangerous or impacts property (all you skaters know what I am talking about.) There is a public review process associated with the ESA Recovery Plans, but those are really general, regional, and have all been approved for the California already for existing listed species. Some are occasionally updated (like last summer in Marin) to add property, and they always fly through the process.

My environmental attorney colleague told me that if they found a listed species on YOUR property, they could impose restrictions if they deemed "impact". YOUR property. So when we get the dialogue going, we should tread lightly on the public access rights. Remember the Spotted Owl in NorCal and Oregon?

We should offer mitigation and ways to otherwise improve the habitat, that usually is welcomed as a negotiating piece. That's part of what gives Audobon and Sierra Club power: they put $$ and resources towards protection.

Here's a nice summary article for anyone interested:

http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Jan/1/241467.html

Two excerpts:

"The Endangered Species Act (ESA) of 1973 protects plants and animals that are listed by the federal government as "endangered" or "threatened." ESA § 9 makes it unlawful for anyone to "take" a listed animal, and this includes significantly modifying its habitat. This applies to private parties and private land; a landowner is not allowed to harm an endangered animal or its habitat on his property.

"...an immigrant who found that his farm near Bakersfield, California, was listed as habitat for the Tipton kangaroo rat and could not for that reason be plowed. He plowed anyway and was jailed, reportedly, for five months."