Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

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WindMuch
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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by WindMuch » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:49 pm

Hi Norman,

I'll take a stab at some of these questions with MY opinion…
I know that self launching and landing are things to be avoided if possible. How big of a pain is it? Is self landing hard on the kite?
Self launching and landing is definitely an advanced move which you should only do after you've got regular launches and landings dialed. Launching and landing is (in my opinion) the time when things can get most out of hand - you've got hard objects around you and less room for mistakes. Only practice self launching and landing in areas where you won't hurt anyone or yourself if you make a mistake. Big beach areas are good - Ocean Beach, Waddell, etc.,

Here's a video from Caution kites on self landing:
http://www.cautionkites.com/vid/vid.index.tut.sland.php

Notice what he says about grabbing the upper power line to land the kite. Some kite/bar setups have a single front/power line which runs through the bar and then splits somewhere up the front lines. This would make grabbing the top front line impossible. I'm not sure how you'd go about self landing a kite with this setup. If self landing is important to you, it's a good thing to mention when you start looking to buy your kites.

Self launching and landing can be a bit more rough on your gear as there is a tendency for the kite to slide along whatever surface you're launching/landing on. If it's sand, no worries. If it's a parking lot, expect a bit more wear on your gear.

I'll plug the Slingshot Rally as a kite which is really easy to self launch and land.
I've read great things about the wind range of modern kites. I'm looking forward to that because I hate re-rigging as a windsurfer. How often does re-rigging happen when you're kiting? How accurate would you say this wind chart for kiteboarding is?
I own 3 kites - 6m, 8m and 10m. It's pretty rare that I'll blow up more than one kite for a particular session.
How many kites/boards would you consider a complete quiver if you're just on the bay and not doing waves? Does it make a difference?
You could probably get away with one twin-tip board, but you'll eventually get the bug for the surf/carve thing and want a directional/surfboard. One nice thing about a surfboard is the additional flotation for lighter wind days. Or with the additional float/length, you can use a smaller kite which turns faster (more fun).
I was always a little concerned about getting my foot caught in a footstrap when windsurfing if I had to bail out. Is that ever a factor in kiteboarding?
I haven't found this to be a problem. Kiteboards are much smaller than sailboards and therefore tend to 'go with' you when you fall, rather than twist up your parts.
If you had a choice of being over powered or under powered on a kite what's preferable? Is sine-ing or running the kite in figure 8's a pain if you're underpowered or something you do routinely?


Modern kites have a pretty big wind range and lots of depower. It may not be obvious to a non-kiter, but you can trim the kite to adjust the power *while you're riding*. Therefore, if you chose a reasonable size kite when you went out (ask people on the beach if you're unsure), it's pretty rare that you'd be dangerously overpowered, unless the wind speed increased significantly while you were out.

If needed, you can generate buckets of power by doing s-turns and/or kite loops.
I hate slogging on a windsurfer waiting for enough wind or a gust so I could get up on a plane. Is there such a thing as slogging on a kiteboard or are you just sitting with your butt in the water trying to waterstart?
I hated slogging on a windsurfer too. The kite is 65+ feet away from you and generates an insane amount of power when turned or looped. Nothing even close to a 'pumped' windsurfing sail. You spend less time slogging kiting because you can make so much power turning the kite.
I windsurf mainly at Berkeley marina and noticed that on days that I thought would be good for kiting I'd see no one out. Then when I thought it was marginal I'd see several. What are the factors there that would affect that? Tide? Steady/gusty?
There is pretty much only one place to launch/land to kite in the Berkeley Marina area. The launch isn't for beginners and/or the faint of heart. At high tide, there is pretty much only iceplant to rig, launch and land on. That plus there isn't' any room for a mistake when you initially leave the beach. A while back someone on this forum asked about the launch. Here's what I said then:

"The spit at Pt. Emery is a bit of a tricky launch, especially at higher tides. Immediately to the North of the launch is a rocky outcropping you have to get upwind of. It's pretty much send the kite, edge and ride upwind. There isn't much time for anything else on the very first tack.

In addition, when you send your kite that first time, it will be VERY near if not over the frontage road, where there is plenty of car, bike and pedestrian traffic.

If that's not bad enough, Hwy 80 is another few hundred feet downwind. If you had to punch out, it could get really ugly with kites and lines combing with vehicles at high speeds."

Here's a diagram of the launch:
Image

and a discussion we had previously about the launch:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8810&p=58813#p58782

As for why you're seeing kites sometimes and not others, I'd guess it's because there is a pretty small crew of kiters who ride there regularly.

Good questions. Keep 'em coming!

Kirk out

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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by jbirdmarin » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:49 pm

Why does that Caution vid always give me the willies? Strikes me as a pretty extreme way of doing it with the kite so high in the air! The technique is correct, but really the kite only needs to be about 10-15 ft off the ground. (BTW self launching is just as safe as assisted launching if you have the right technique and space, IMHO).

Depending on your weight and as a beginner, I think you may want something bigger than a 10M.

And def stay away from Berkeley Marina/Pt. Emery until you've mastered staying upwind and knowing "when to say when" for a self rescue.

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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by maxsteamer » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:11 am

jbirdmarin wrote:Why does that Caution vid always give me the willies? Strikes me as a pretty extreme way of doing it with the kite so high in the air! The technique is correct, but really the kite only needs to be about 10-15 ft off the ground. (BTW self launching is just as safe as assisted launching if you have the right technique and space, IMHO).

Depending on your weight and as a beginner, I think you may want something bigger than a 10M.

And def stay away from Berkeley Marina/Pt. Emery until you've mastered staying upwind and knowing "when to say when" for a self rescue.
Howdy jbird,

I have tryed both ways.. and found it is best to kill the kite a bit higher.. as there is more time to pull the front lines in and if need be a hard pull to the upper front line .. I know what you mean I thought the same as you did but when I killed the kite lower in the window it landed a bit upwind and relanched ? if it is 30+ I will land the kite to the side of the window and hook the loop on sandbag or simular and run and secure the kite.
http://www.cautionkites.com

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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by Willy T » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:36 am

all good questions, looking forward to reading what the responses are. I got some good feedback on self-launching and landing a while back on this thread:

https://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/for ... and#p60333

I ended up embracing the Cabrinha launch technique and the Caution landing technique mostly because they work best at my location:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2W4fNVq6S4

http://www.cautionkites.com/vid/vid.index.tut.sland.php

I learned this the hard way: both techniques are simple enough in steady winds, but behave drastically (dangerously) different in high winds. be careful not to take them for granted.

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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by WindMuch » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:32 pm

In terms of self-landing, it should be said that there's never any shame in simply "punching out". This is the act of releasing your main safety (at your harness), flagging the kite on one line, causing it to land, usually upside down, powerless.

This is something you'll learn during your lessons and is a good way to self-land, particularly in high wind situations where there isn't someone kite-knowledgable or close by to help you land safely.

Kirk out

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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by maxsteamer » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:26 am

Thanks Kirk,

I agree 100% ..To Funny?.. as I'm the guy always yelling pull your safety and the last one to use it ? as this move should be a instinct to every kiter seasoned or not..I apologize for not mentioning this in my post.. If your reading this willyT ..(When in doubt.. punch-out) Dam..I think our Marshall cdog will like that quote or at least approve it.
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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by Aloha » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:41 pm

These guys are all vets they've got you pretty well covered

1) Fly a trainer kite until you are at a point of kite control that you're getting cocky, doing sick nasty tricks on it, and literally can't wait to get out there and drag around in the water using a kite

2) Take the lesson as early in the season as possible.. It lays down your safety skills basics and all the basics that you need to learn so you can translate your kite control into sick nasty body dragging skills -- and then eventually starting to get up on the board

3) Buy the standard prob 11-13meter modern all range newbie kite (maybe a used 1-2 yrs old kite) as well as cheap twin-tip board. You can prob find good deals on eBay or Craigslist.. just run what you're buying by the guys on here before you pull the trigger on anything and people can make a good recommendation to make sure the sizing and "free-ridability" of the gear is a good fit to learn on for your particular stats

4) Get out to Crowne Beach at Alameda and keep on practicing.. It's a great place to learn and should be pumping fresh in the season so will give you plenty of good learning / practice days. If you show up with drinks I've been known to give free lessons at Shell Gate with Max.

5) Remember that North & Naish are considered the cool brands in this sport 8)

Cheers & get ready for the addiction to begin!

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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by friggin old guy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:47 pm

somebody is bound to try to sell you a yellow Cabrinha

and a go joe

which is all good but may subject you to prejudice and fear

all major brands are pretty dialed in on safety stuff but be very careful you're buying anything used from somebody you trust......

some folks that teach will offer to set you up with used stuff that they've tested and made sure is set up right, and that's a really good way to go

If you're up for a trip to the Oregon coast, I'll plug my sister and brother-in-law's place....shallow lake, jet ski rescue, sauna overlooking the ocean, b&b if you want it plushy, nice campground if you don't......good place to get started....you might even know the spot if you've been windsurfing for awhile........

http://www.floraslake.com/flw2.html

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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by WindMuch » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:21 pm

I agree - Alameda is probably the best the place to get yourself in the water after your lessons. It's shallow, not usually nuking, and a long sandy beach with not too many obstacles.

But don't delay - Alameda tends to only really blow consistently in the spring. After that, the best bets are 3rd Avenue and Sherman Island - neither of which have the user-friendlyness of Alameda's large beach, which is really nice when you're learning to stay upwind.

Kirk out

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Re: Newbie ?'s from windsurfer

Post by nbon » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:41 pm

Really appreciate the time you guys have taken to share your thoughts. Very useful advice and I'll be keeping it in mind.

I was planning on putting in as much time as I can spare at Crowne so its good to hear so many of you think its a good place for a beginner.

Newbie Norman

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