Open Discussion on the use of Life Jackets (PFD)

[perukite]

Dear All Bay Area Kiters-

This is my first ever posting on this site even though I have been a frequent "lurker" soaking up information and observing the local community as I am relatively new to the area and sport (1 year).

My background is a surfer, whitewater kayaker, river guide, safety kaker, etc. Upon moving here from a 10 year stint in Peru - I quickly realized my surfing was limited in consideration of the amount of wind that plies the waters - and the lightbulb quickly blinked when I started to notice kiteboarders. F*** yeah, I got into the sport like a fly on S***. And at the time, even when not having a car - was taking public transport (Presidigo, Bart, AC transit: 1:45min) from the city over to Alameda during my learning/beginner days - dedicated to the cause. I'm now riding 3rd and Sherman comfortably and a have just recently made my first forays out at Wadell and Crissy (cautiously, respectfully, aware).

A question that has been bugging me recently is why do we not see the frequent (un-questionable use) of life jackets or PFDs amongst kiteboarders?

First, to ward off a few responses that are quick to come back:

1- I realize we are teathered to a flying device (kite) that can fling us many, many feet into the air which is 1000s of time better than any flotation device. BUT- we can loose this at any time.

2- The kite has inflated bladders and if we can't relaunch, we can get to the kite and use it to self rescue. BUT - again, we can loose the kite due to many circumstances and the bladders can blow.

3- People will say, life jackets can get in the way of a very mobile sport. BUT - I beg to differ on this from my days in whitewater. The things are so technicaly advanced nowadays that they sit perfectly and give you complete range of motion. I think this is a fairly mute point, considering that an impact vest is just as restrictive.

4- People will say that what is more useful is an impact vest to protect our ribs and back/chest from crashes and provides just some flotation, but since we have an inflated kite attached to us, flotation is not the issue. BUT - in the last five years, whitewater PFDs have advanced to provide rib protection as you are a hell of a lot more likely you break ribs when hucking a 50' waterfall and could slam your ribs into your boat, paddle or an underwater rock. This impact technology exisits and it incorporated into the most advanced life jackets on the market today - much better than any impact vest I've seen so far.

5- People might say (and excuse me for even having the courage to be so forthright about this reality) that is looks stupid, like wearing shorts over a wetsuit, or helmets are gay. BUT - You can still throw down as hard without any of this safety equipment, but be sensible doing it. If you have this mentality - then you have never spent enough time in these types of recreational activites to have dealt with rescuing another person and put your life on the line over something that could have easily been prevented by the other person being a bit more self-aware and realizing that their reckless actions not only endanger themselves but endanger people they don't even know - who will have the courage to rescue a stranger in need.

To be completely honest, when I was learning to kite over at Alameda, I wore my whitewater life jacket. I haven't worn it since I've become an intermediate kiter - my session out at Crisy this afternoon for no particular reason had me think about this heavily.

Actually, I was thinking about this because I just ordered a VHF marine radio as I realized that I would be out at crissy a lot since I work on the Presidio and that is frequently becoming the reccomendation on this site for people riding out near the north tower to have a radio (and swim fins, and a strobe...great ideas). I was dumbfounded by the fact that I was going to take a radio out there with me but would not wear a life jacket, just because it was not part of this sports culture. Could we build a life jacket with a place to store a radio, strobe and attache swim fins to?

Anybody have any other good explanation for this? Or should I start a fashion trend?

Sure, it's one more piece of bullshit that will end up being marketed and hyped up - "the mystic dragon slayer kite-vest with integrated wireless vhf marine technology and staellite gps tracking, accented by automitic strobe illumination after dark" But the plain fact is this:

I'm out with relatively few people near the north tower or out at the channel marker at 3rd, I pull some trick and end up smacking my head into something upon landing and am unconcious...or my equipent fails and I am left floating in a 4knt current. Wouldn;t a life jacket (which is designed to keep an unconcious victim floating face up in the water) make more sense as the first piece of safety equipment over a VHF radio, a line cutting knife, or even a whistle?

I'd be interested to hear the communities comments on this matter, I'm not blaming or smacking down anything or anyone. Hell, I'm the proponent - and I was not wearing my flotation aid out there today - and just ordered a radio.... pretty funny. I just wanted to open a dialouge on the topic and see what the general concensus is.

I've got some super good friends who still work in the paddlesports industry and design PFDs for whitewater - maybe if we had something that suited our particular needs it would be more commonplace? If so, let me hear your design ideas on what we need/don't need.

Thanks for your concern if you are still reading at this point. That is what is so wonderful about kiteboarding....it's so new there are so many good ideas and advancements to come, boundarys to be pushed - and out of all the earth powered pursuits I have become addicted to - the kite community really has a great vibe to it and has not been corrupted by negativity, punk ass, localism attitude yet (although last weekend at Sherman I saw some twinges starting.... launching kites in peoples way and hey!, great!, you are really are a hotdog kiter with thise kiteloops and handle passes - but it is so embarissingly and painfully obvious that the only place you will pull that trick is in front of the beach where a possible camera or hot chick might see you...)

(p.s...I hear there are some "venture capitalists" who kite.....so if anyone wants to help me start a kite specific lifejacket company I'm sure we will be tottally rich...my number is 1-800-not interested...... I enjoy my life and work, as it is, and just appreciate my silent struggle, balance and solitude with the wind and water)

Peace to you all and be safe out there...

CK

[windhorny]

I know this sounds stupid, but hey...

I have been trying to come up with a kit i wanted to call the "kiters kompanion" it would consist of a rope for towing logs, people, boards in, a whistle/light, a floating stainless screwdriver, and (here's the debatable one) a beachball. I was trying to think of something cheap that is small when not in use. A self inflating PFD is still awkward to carry and expensive, not to mention they are set to automatically inflate when submerged. not exactly ideal for our sport. But if you were out and your kte got away and you were not able to keep afloat easily. A few breaths could keep you bouyant very easily.

Unfortunately PFD's are just too awkward and most of us rely on kiting close enough to others that we hope nothing would happen. the one exception is getting knowked unconscious. But i still have a hard time believing that a PFD would really keep your head from taking in water if you were knocked out for a few minutes.

[TheMoniker]

I dont see how wearing a life jacket interferes with your kiting. I actually wear one and carry a emergency PLB (personal locator beacon) which is like a GPS transmitter in one of my zip-up pockets but it definitely isnt that secure in there. I took a look at some whitewater PFDs out there and they look like they hang sort of low. That might get in the way of the harness.

[Greg]

Peru Dude,
Right on!! What you say is SO TRUE!!
Problem is. it ant'e COOL!!!!!!! Well I'm living proof that Cool will get you DEAD! I hit the rocks without a helmit, why- shit I dont know, no-one wore one!! Same day Trang hits the wall, no helmit, two million dollars of medical later he kites again..
My son died skating without a helmit, WHY, who really knows, but I'd say it was peer pressure. Plain and simple people are followers. Few live and operate outside the norm..

I'll tell you flat out, my wake/impact suit saved my butt the day I hit those rocks! The suit was AWESOME, and if I'd had a helmit on I'd have saved another $3500.

-so-
Building a bad-a$$ impact/floation suit/jacket sounds KILLER to me..
I currently use a very small inflatable PFD with a small pocket in front for my radio and light. I got it at WestMarine for about $50., pull the cord and pow you have a float. It's not perfect but it's WAY BETTER then nuth'n!
G.

[Greg]

For the first year I used a kayak paddleing jacket over a seat harness. Then I got a new waste harness and my jacket didn't fit (plus I looked like a kook)... So I lost the jacket and went out and broke some ribs!!

Some might have seen that a wake-up call, but I'm a little slower on the up-take then most folks..
L.M.G.

[reyrivera]

I use a Neil Pryde flotation vest I got from Kite Wind Surf when I surf double overhead waves. Saved me last December when my leash broke.

I also use the same jacket for kiting. Thick enough to give you the flotation you need, thin enough so you can move your arms around and be able to do stuff.

Some folks are not used to wearing PFDs because they can sometimes get in the way when you are kiting. It does get some time to get used to wearing a PFD while kiting.

Some people prefer not to use vests because of the "coolness" factor and it just does not look fashionable. Professional rider shots in magazines don't emphasize PFDs, so its monkey see, monkey do.

[windhorny]

I always wear a condom when I kite. Just incase.

[Sonny]

I don't buy the coolness factor for PFD. I never once looked at a kiter with PFD and thought that person would be totally cool without that PFD. But then again maybe I'm too old compare to most of you on this thread.

[windhorny]

Yesterday at Alameda, there was a couple that, I am guessing, bought all their gear at urban ore or the salvation army. No joke: rock climbing harness, caribeaner for hook, stiff old wetsuit, some kind of helmet from something else with a felt mohawk glued to it, some kind of bright awkward neck warmer?? And the kite was something I had never heard of, "something ...tool". Anyways, they had bright yellow PFD's and wouldnt say that made them look any MORE rediculous than they already did. I nearly dropped my gear just to grab my camera but I didnt want to be too insulting.

[amir]

This is a great post. Safety is a very important issue for me and now that I kite Crissy more often I want to have the best setup.

Can anyone suggest which brands of radio, strobe, and PLB are best for kiting?

Thinking about putting them all in a camel pack so have some H20 for those long sessions.

I ride with an impact vest, if they made one that was just as comfy that was PFD certified, I'd consider switching.

What's up with the swim fins? I've never seen anyone bring those along. I guess if I had to swim in, it would make it quicker and easier.