La Ventana Kite Expo Race issues and suggestions

[KillaHz]

I figured I would start a new thread since it seems that there is some concern about the organization of the La Ventana Kite Expo and crossing. Some people seem to feel pretty strongly on both sides.

As a sponsor this year and someone who did not go last year, I would like to hear the past issues and some proposed solutions as it sounds like it could be a really great event and I want to make sure we as a sponsor get everything we expect out of it.

I will repost here some of what I saw in the other post.

From Gnukid:
As far as the event; the classic, I would remind everyone that it was expensive last year, they required participants to ride in a panga to the start line and those that sailed to the start and ended up winning were disqualified. That would make it the first and hopefully last sailing event that disqualifies sailors for sailing the event?

Somehow in the classic last year, the vast organization forgot to score the finishers? All this while the organizer, Tim, made it clear he was in charge and refused assistance from people who do race? I have no idea what happened to the vast funds collected while everyone volunteered but overall I would call it totally inexcusable and on a similar path this year. Some things are not fixable. I could go on... the demo was organized so that you could not launch because there was no lane to do so and therefore it was not a riding demo? I was left with a bad impression.

I know there are other opinions and I know events are difficult to organize but beware.

Well we could say this is all just criticism of a new event or you could say the problem is in the misplaced vision. Races are best run by crews who do kite and race with a fleet captain as we know, not by a hotel manager/accountant whether seemingly with good intentions or for profit or for charity-its just not right.

As far as staying at Palapas Ventana it would be great if you like to walk on narrow paths over an artificial canyon lined with tires for your vacation, but why would you? When you could stay at any number of places that are fantastic, authentic and sincere in their attempt to provide a nice place with a view and comfort. I would skip Palapas Ventana at least until they prove themselves otherwise. I could go on...

I should mention that there does seem to be some locations that are less clean than others and that some people did catch Staph Infections in the recent weeks. Its hard to know whether its due to the mosquitos, the ocean water, the water from the faucet or what but if you have any concern about a skin infection or otherwise get a staph culture when you return to the states-they can be serious and deadly. I am only writing about it because I personally know three people who have come down with staph from time there recently and it was serious.

I am pleased the main camp has new bathrooms an awesome vibe and I hope that the hotels are are updating their septic tanks to avoid discharge in the ocean.

In response from Gracie Marie:
"As far as the event; the classic, I would remind everyone that it was expensive last year, they required participants to ride in a panga to the start line and those that sailed to the start and ended up winning were disqualified. That would make it the first and hopefully last sailing event that disqualifies sailors for sailing the event?"

Gnukid, this race is a CHARITY, and the parameters of the race are/were simple.

2008/Last year's race/event:

1) The Crossing is a one way race. Racers took panga boats to Isla Cervallo, the island across from us in the Bay of La Ventana. The race originated as, was advertised as, and was laid out to the riders in the skippers meeting as a race from Isla Cervallo to the front of Baja Joe's in La Ventana.
2) A course race for the top finishers of THAT race.
3) An "Old School" trick contest.
4) The first year of the La Ventana Kite Expo. An excellent time to test drive all the new groovy stuff and schmooze with your friends.

You said, "I have no idea what happened to the vast funds collected while everyone volunteered but overall I would call it totally inexcusable and on a similar path this year." The race/event is a CHARITY. Do you reckon that the "vast funds" might have gone to the school in La Ventana as advertised?

Tim of Palapas Ventana organises this event and in addition to donating
his own money, prizes, food/beverages, he works VERY hard for FREE. It's not a "vast organization". For you to hint that there is anything untoward about Tim (and any other volunteers) is offensive and irresponsible.

The money went to the schools here in La Ventana. Tim at Palapas Ventana has detailed data on the finances. Before you post a barely veiled accusation, you might consider gathering factual data instead of freely slandering a social servant.

You go on to say, "...you could say the problem is in the misplaced vision. Races are best run by crews who do kite and race with a fleet captain as we know, not by a hotel manager/accountant whether seemingly with good intentions or for profit or for charity-its just not right."

Wow. I am speechless at your profound and incredible ignorance. Reading the literature prior to entry to any event, especially for you, is wholly advisable in the future.

Lastly, you said this: "I should mention that there does seem to be some locations that are less clean than others and that some people did catch Staph Infections in the recent weeks." Again, WOW. Your ignorance is mind blowing.

Staphylococcus aureus is frequently found in the nose and skin of most people. About 20% of the population are long-term carriers of S. aureus; S. aureus can infect other tissues when normal barriers have been breached (e.g., skin or mucosal lining).

In other words, you cut yourself. The little germies can then jump from your own nose to your own wee cut, and hurt you. Ow!

Maybe you should only go to events run by professional "crews", in a sterile, abrasion-free environment where you will be the happy receipent of a detailed accounting of your entry fee.

Or, maybe you should just pass on this one and stay out of Mexico. GM

Gnukid:
There has been a long history of events in the region of La Ventana and the East Cape, perhaps a historical perspective might shed some light as to why I would be noting a caution in this case.

Many of us arrived in La Ventana more than 25 years ago because we attended the International Windsurfing Championships in Los Barilles, afterwards we took a cultural trip on to La Ventana with some new local friends to learn spanish and to ride the flatter water and small waves of the area now called the main campground. We fell in love with Ventana and the people. That Intl. Championship event had great success until it too suffered from poor leadership precipitating its demise as it DSQed the champion for winning too much, in fact it was Chip who was DSQed because they said other sailors would fall over as he sailed by??? No amount of calm discussion would get them to budge-which was an utter failure of the event.

You see that result 25 years ago is quite similar to Tim's DSQing the winners last year for sailing effectively the entire course regardless that he shouted out his "no sailing" rule at the party it was not written prior nor is it a reasonable rule. Tim's complete disregard for the champion, who by the way was a senior and hard of hearing and likely the oldest registered competitor is inexcusable and totally in disregard for fairness and corinthian spirit.

Tim failed to mention the actual winner Lynn Pruit in the awards in any way shape or form which was a slight that is unforgivable. Its this disregard for the sailors that marks a failed event. This is exactly the pattern of failure of the previous events. A new person comes along and claims to take over management, they insist on choosing a winner without accurate results, DSQing the true winner and glossing over the whole debacle without comment. Its not racing, the event becomes a tool of the individual to promote their private goals which lack sense and fairness.

We had many more events, some organized in Ventana and some in Barilles. Cat Betts organized events that succeeded on all marks to have competition and raise money for charity in large amounts. Jorge did an amazingly organic job in Ventana in the same regard.

There are many other events including the event that was the event previously we speak of and it was well organized by Mr. Kent. Bruce has held events which also went off with success, with accurate starts and finishes, parties, t-shirts and fairness.

There are truly many other events so as someone with that long perspective, it offends me to see the current revision by Tim claimed to be the Classic be run with such disregard for 1) Sailing, 2) Racing, 3) Value.

I write because, well, the previous International Championships which we so proudly participated ended when someone with an ego took-over and it suffered demise in credibility.

Once lost, its difficult to recover the respect of the people and the racers and so it never could return to its luster.

Similarly this event has huge promotion, big budget (from your dollars--promotion does not equal charity--clearly) and yet complete disdain for the authority of fair racing. I guess that makes me feel like, they are attempting to capitalize on our work, your money and to exploit it in a manner not befitting the class and style of the sailors.

Because of the known history and past performance of Tim at the event I am very concerned about the repercussions, reputation and our future.

I hope that those who do go to the event can voice their concerns clearly find the chance to participate fairly and that Tim steps out of an organizational role where he has no experience nor apparent desire to create a functional Demo and Race.

Thektieboarderusa:
Here are a few facts regarding this event:

The reason why racers were disqualified last year for sailing over to the island before the race is simple: It was stated over and over again at the skipper's meeting that everybody was to meet at the Pongas so that all could be accounted for going over, and all could be accounted for after the event was over. With 130 people participating last year, it was a simple rule set for safety. It would have been organizational chaos if anybody that felt like going over did so. think about it.

This event was established by Tim at Palapas Ventana as a FUN local community event to raise funds for a local cause. He and his staff volunteer their time tirelessly to coordinate it and ensure that all have a fun and SAFE experience. This year, the funds raised were used to buy materials for 4 new bathroom stalls for the primary school and two new playground sets for the kindergarten. Volunteers also turned out to the paint the school which we will do again in 2009. It was a very cool experience meeting and working with the local parents and kids! La Ventana Builders donated their time and the funds raised payed for all materials. Tim does this event not out of ego, but out of desire to give something back to the local community.

The Kiteboarder Mag joined Tim this year to bring the demo portion to the event and to help promote it. We have been co-sponsoring the Pismo Expo in California for the last few years and also did our first one in Cabarete in 2004. We learned a lot this year so for 2009 we are:
-Giving more space to each exhibitor
-Registration tent at far north end in Arroyo versus middle to keep registration/comps/finish line completely upwind

It is not perfect but the formula works. The event is meant for experienced kiteboarders. If you can do a rabbit start with 100 others, I don't think you should be too intimidated by launching and landing in a crowd:-)

Anyway, hope this clarifies some things. An organizer's job is not easy. There are and will always be critics because someone has to take charge and opinions always differ. The above being said, as someone who has planned and coordinated small and large scale events for over 20 years, there is always room for improvement!

Hope to see you guys at the event. It's going to be a great time:-)

Gnukid:
I think its great that so may of you are profuse in your positive accolades regardless of the case. While its great to promote "charity" funded by kiters and gloss over problems, I wonder why would you entrust someone who failed so badly last year and expect it to go better this year while Tim continues to claim its for fun and just have fun, who cares what happened to the race or the winners or any of the particulars. The type of disregard for the outcome smacks of idiocy.

LMG how do you think events happen? By chance? Who cares? People are either professional or they are not. Come on, there must be a goal to achieve an effective professionally run race and demo or not, you can't have it both ways--its a race and demo but its a charity and its fun so who cares?

I have the qualifications to question the failure, running as many kite races as anyone, rescuing as many people as anyone except Johnny CoastGuard and having the professional training and background to know. I have a long history in this regard. So with that I am qualified to speak out about these issues and in doing so I deserve your respect not your blind disregard.

LMG furthermore, its incumbent upon you to reflect on the past and defer your judgment here.

Why should anyone donate their time to a cause that fails? LMG I am involved extensively. You know that I participate. I tried to participate in last years event until it became clear that there was an organizational problem and it was Tim and I withdrew completely. This letter here is further evidence of my involvement. I am keenly aware and involved and I am expressing a concern about obvious issues while Tim and you apparently are in complete disregard of the facts. It goes deeper than that and I think we as a community must have high standards for safety and fairness and we must be adamant in doing so, not casual and dismissive as you are LMG and thekiteboarderusa.

I am very suspicious as to why you or anyone would be adamant in your support without criticism of the result?

Tim will not acknowledge that he can't shout rules out over at a party and subsequently DSQ people who sailed fairly and expertly on a whim and then justify it afterwards, in doing so, he lost 100% credibility. He had many days to consider his actions and now even a year later he won't acknowledge the failure of his actions which robbed the winner of his trophy. Not even a mention of the winner? In the spirit of athleticism and kiting this is not going in a good direction and yet we should be hell bent in support?

Let me provide another example, does anyone remember the 1984 Gorge Windsurfing Championships? It was one of the biggest events ever, like last year's Ventana event. But the finals were marred by 5 reruns and subsequent DSQs without reference to a specific rule because the race committee decided to do so, they said the wind wasn't fair according to their perspective even though the races were completed with sailors planning and a winner was clear. Finally the sponsors team rider won and that race was accepted? The race was forever marred as a failure due largely to loss of faith in the organizers. Pathetic.

When you forgo fair racing for something else you lose the "thing" that we strive to achieve, which is a clear champion. We had a champion last year but he was quietly dismissed and disrespectfully so, without a hearing or recourse, without written rules, without written declaration, just quietly dismissed, like the 1984 Gorge event or the Baja intl Championships I mentioned. Its called poor race management.

Last year's event was poorly planned and executed and failed its marks. No amount of private or public discussion with Tim could change that and the result is clear. You either have respect for professional event management by people who know what they are doing or you don't. And in this case the arrogance of the organizer marred the result. I am writing here because of my deep concern for these issues.

I hope that you see this as just that, concerns expressed. It is not personal its public. I have responsibility to express my concern.

It easy to make light of the circumstance, who cares what happened, just have fun, but there is a starting point here. Tim called for a race, people came from thousands of miles away and spent thousands of dollars to compete some of them seniors and some of them young people who are pursing their dreams to win. Panga drivers put themselves on the line as well, they volunteered time and energy in a potentially extremely dangerous scenario.

Please at least some of you be a bit more cautious about your blind support for a race which puts people in a position where they are transported to an island to sail back while being managed by an architect who seems to have disregard for common sense and certainly for traditions in fairness in sailing.

I appreciate and respect your immense support for the message of the event but I ask that each of you ask yourself if it feels right, does it feel safe, does it feel well managed, or should the event strive for a higher level of racing and event professionalism, at least.

So when Tim or anyone makes decisions that affect everyone and slight those who did contribute its brings to mind the real intent. Now if Tim is so apt to make changes without communicating them in writing or fairly to everyone, why would you LMG be profuse in your support for him? That type of blind support and arrogance on the part of Tim are not what I would support.

I am writing from a perspective of safety and fairness first. Some of you act very nonchalant about these issues while few actually do run races, those who do or who teach know to have respect for these issues more so than apparently Tim and thekiteboarderusa.

I guess its like banging my head against the wall to talk about safety and fairness with some of you, while that is my primary concern.

Let say, "Tim here's $10,000 to do x job and to it safely and fairly" and Tim failed to do so. Would you then argue profusely "lets do it again. Lets give Tim another $10,000 to try a second time?" It makes no sense to entrust someone with a failed track record to do it again?

The money is hardly the issue, the primary concern I have is the safety and fairness of the event. No I won't participate, many who did year last won't this year, but LMG et al have fun and please be cognizant of issues and do not hesitate to speak up loudly because it's difficult to know if the organizers will, this time.

There is a solution to this, which is simple, employ the use of effective race organization by professionals.

And now from me... so...

I would encourage you all to continue your conversation here in this post and would ask that we try to work towards a positive, community outcome as this event is happening and I'm sure that the ultimate goal for everyone is to have a great event!

Paul, you have been supporting the efforts of events such as this for a long time, longer than many know and I think that your contributions are very important. Is a partnership totally out of the question? Could certain concessions be made by last years organizer that would allow the slate to be wiped clean and everyone to move forward towards a positive outcome?

[kitenaked]

Kite Naked Crew and Wainman Hawaii's first time as well. I personally sift through the back and forth crap and need to slam my head into the keyboard to stay awake. Yes, everyone has their 5 minutes to stand on the soap box.

The event is moving forward as far as I know. If people have a problem being a part of it they can stay home or accept it for what it is or volunteer ahead of time and help to improve it. Sounds reasonable to me but a challenge for many. Just look at the responses below...

Kite Naked Crew and Wainman Hawaii are going down to have a good time and give people a chance to ride our kites..unless we are on them ourselves (They really kick ass you know!)

Lets all go down and have some good times...TOGETHER!

PS: I am bringing Finn down there, lets set a good example!

[Greg]

Sounds like somebody should sit this one out....

My "support" is for the event. I want the "event" to be as fun and fruitful as possable.. I didn't even KNOW a guy named TIM ran the EVENT... My only deal is to keep this in prespective.. Lots of people are going to be there to have a good time- some people are going to do a "big race" across the staight.. It sounds like that "event" should be pretty easy to run- START-bang! First person to finish wins-- BIG DEAL!!

Sorry bro if your bummed I'm not on board with your RACE issues.. My goals are SIMPLE, show up- ride- enjoy...
If you want to blow a gasket over some details' go for it! As far as I'm concerned: I think YOU need to have a pow-wow with TIM..

Anyway, Have FUN!!
Greg

[KillaHz]

Awesome that you are coming Chris and bringing Finn down as well. It will be a great event! As to setting a good example, well once the sun goes down in Baja, well... hopefully the little guy will be asleep...

Eclipse was there last year and this year Eclipse with Full Throttle is sponsoring all the prize money and we will be the beverage sponsor as well supplying ample amounts of the Coke energy drink Full Throttle.

I have spoken with Marina and other vendors from last year and it sounds like many changes are being made this year to accommodate the growing participants...

I can't wait!

[gnukid]

Thank you Gabe

Awesome. With you on board many of the event issues would be improved to a level which is much more safe and cool as you have done as a participating Race PRO (racers rep). There should be a racer beach captain also like you with experience and skill to plan and manage the demo lanes as well as the race days launching and landing lanes. The Race Principle Race Officer should be someone who has experience racing and is calm and cool, is racing in this event and can give valuable input to the RC and to the Racers. The RC should be run by Race Director with experience of which there are many to choose from I'm sure.

Issues to be addressed;

Sailing the course
Sailors should be allowed to sail the entire course if they can demonstrate the ability to do so and can check in and check out to satisfy the RC. It is a tradition in sailing that sailors be allowed to sail to and from the event whenever possible for obvious reasons.

Panga drivers
Panga drivers must be schooled and have a plan for rescuing people. Just because the drivers are masters of the sea does not make them good safety boat drivers since they do not have the skill and experience to pull in kites, lines and people. This requires a practice training run to actually do rescues for each driver and assistant. A safety assistant, experienced kite rescue person in addition to the driver should be on each boat. Plans to pull people into the boat who are weak or overweight should be addressed such as loop ladder to stand on or to grab them and pull them in.

Starts and and Finishes
Starts and and Finishes should conform to some racing standard, no reason to reinvent the wheel here. The Finish line team must find ways to identify each person either with jerseys and kite identification and an effective team who can identify by name and count the finishers in large groups. Not an easy task. This is something to be addressed by a professional group. The finishers could be spread out with a buoy and small close reach at the finish to allow the to stream across one at a time to finish or you need a masterful crew to decide who finished where when they bunch up if its a downwind finish.

Demo
Obviously the demo would be best if it were in a larger space with lanes to launch and land like you do in Alameda or any large event site like the Big Air Wind Jam with designated pro launchers and pro catchers on duty at all times. Perhaps the main campground is far more well suited to the demo and even spread it out further across the whole region with stations per brand so you can actually fly the kites and ride. Starting at Baja Joes presents less wind when the wind is light and little downwind for people to sort out issues so it would best moved up a bit, its hard to improve upon the campground as a location.

Rules and resolving disputes
We have a good set of racing rules to guide racing which can also be used to resolve disputes. These rules should be the over-riding rules for the event without the ability for any sponsor to over-ride them regardless. An impartial protest resolution committee made up of peers and experts and no sponsors should be designated should any problem come up. Good planning prevents problems.

Charity
Charities have responsibilities to demonstrate some accounting. Its reasonable to incur costs and they can be significant. The ratio of money raised versus costs incurred should be demonstrated or there is a sense that the mystery of the where the money went remains. Of course the better the ratio of funds disbursed to funds gathered the better. Its nice to know how well we are doing. When organizers reveal where the money goes, it makes the process much easier, open and in the end its easier to raise more money if you know where the money is going.

These are some of the things which come to mind. I am sure you have more input as do others. I am hoping to be there and everything is looking good to be on site.

I am really excited to hear your input and to know that it possible to move in a positive direction with experienced people toward ensuring a more safe and fair event. And I am glad you understand the nature of the concerns. I think if you could get some traction here everyone in La Ventana and El Sargento would be much more comfortable.

[GracieMarie]

I have copied/pasted Tim Hatler's reply to the rukus about the event here. He posted it in the old thread.

Posted 15Dec2008: "Thanks for your interest in this years La Ventana Classic and KiteXpo!! Last year was our third year of running the event and we had 3 goals 1) raise money for our schools 2) be safe and 3) have fun…we achieved them all thanks to the help of our many sponsors (local and major) and many hardworking volunteers. The event raised $12,000 USD for our schools which is a large chunk of change in our small town…here’s where the money went

1) We painted the entire primary school with parents, students, and racers!!
2) We revamped the playground at the La Ventana Kindergarten with new playground equipment
3) We built an 8 stall bathroom at the El Sargento Primary School with the help of La Ventana Builders – the bathroom was opened in August in a special celebration with our governor and municipal president

This year we hope to raise even more money and have the following goals
1)plant trees at the ES primary school
2)build an outdoor shaded patio performance area at the La Ventana Primary School
3)revamp the examination room at our local health center

As far as this years racing goes…bigger and better –we will cap the crossing race at 150 racers….that’s 50 sportsmen (pure fun) and 100 competitors (in it to win it)
So if you haven’t signed up yet better hurry—go to
http://www.palapasventana.com/news_deta ... x?NewsId=4
and scroll down to register.
Registering early will also streamline our skippers meeting at the Palapas Ventana restaurant at 7pm on Jan 21st.

In the interest of safety at sea it will be a one way race – cross over in a panga and then race back…any other way would be chaos with that many people…you might even fins some buried treasure - ask someone who was there last year to clarify--sorry 2 folks got disqualified last year but I told them very clearly in person the day before and they made their own choice…128 others followed the rules and had a great time. And every one crossed the channel safely and was accounted for thanks to our 15 local pangueros.

This year we will have separate awards for the Crossing winners to honor them and Arnaud from Kitemasters armed with a bigger posse of volunteers and a video cam to keep tabs on the finish line. The jerseys this year look bitchin!!

Again we will have course racing finals for the top Crossing finishers in mens and womens divisions – the finals will be three consecutive races for all qualifiers from the crossing with the lowest score being the winner - The courses will be very simple - similar to the nationals in SF. And if you love course racing start practicing every Thursday at 230 pm in front of YoYos here in La Ventana –Kent and Cynthia have formed the Baja BoardRiders and organized a weekly race series for some great fun and friendly competition.

Also we will have a SUP and prone Paddle Race this year…and of course our old skool and big air trick contest – a real crowd pleaser last year.

There are already 15 top brand kite and SUP exhibitors confirmed for this years KiteXpo co-sponsored by The KiteBoarder Magazine which will be a great chance for folks to once again try top of the line gear for free – look for SUPs to try as well. Our beach set up in front of Baja Joes this year will allow more separation for the demo and comps and more room for each vendor. Plus Neil Hutchinson will be joining us as our official MC to keep things flowing and we’ve got a beach party in addition to the last night party. lots more great prizes from all the top brands this year and cash prizes for 1sr place finishers-win boards, kites, and more all while helping raise $$ for our local schools and health center.

Last years event was a great success with great racing, great $$ raised for our community, and great fun…this year looks to be even better….whats to complain about? Get involved!! If you would like to help please email tim@palapasventana.com

_________________
Tim Hatler
Palapas Ventana
La Ventana, Baja
Mexico
http://www.palapasventana.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[PalapasVentana]

Look forward to seeing you all for a great time here in La Ventana

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the 4th annual La Ventana Classic and KiteXpo - thank you to this years sponsors and riders for supporting our schools:
Palapas Ventana, TheKiteBoarder Magazine, Hands of Faith, Ventana Windsports, Full Throttle, Baja Joes, KITEMASTERS, Sol Kiteboarding, PADDLESURF.NET, Isle Surfboards, Captain Kirks, Downwinder Inn, El Cardon Restaurant, La Ventana Builders, Advance, Best, Eclipse,F-One, Liquid Force, Mystic, Naish, North, Ocean Rodeo, RRD, Slingshot, Wainman Hawaii, Underground, Freak Dog, and our local restaurants, hardware stores, city mayor Osvaldo Cota Cota, and governor Agundez

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This years gonna rock

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Come to La Ventana and get ready for a top notch event to remember!!
airfares just went down!!

[KillaHz]

Hey Tim, thanks for posting here! If I could make a couple suggestions to satisfy some of the more hardcore racers that will be coming down there for the event.

1. Put together an official Notice of Race (NOR) with the rules and post it here and on the official event site. Also have this available upon request when racers pick up bibs.
2. Post a course description so that racers know what kind of boards to bring.
3. Post the categories and prizes for each event.

Thanks! Can't wait to get down there!

[PalapasVentana]

Thanks Gabe - it is already online at http://www.palapasventana.com/news_deta ... x?NewsId=4 just click on event info and schedule
look forward to having you involved this year!!

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[windhorny]

It's really interesting how the 3 top racers ride incredibly different rigs yet all make them work equally as well.