Cabrinha Omega won't stay at 12 - why?

[ChrisPhoenix]

If I'm lying in the water, park my kite directly overhead with the bar all the way out, and let go of the bar (for example, to get my feet back in my board), it will start to luff almost immediately and then drift down to one side along the edge of the wind window. Either side, randomly, so it's not an unbalanced line. And it happens in steady wind, and every time. It just will not stay overhead without constant control inputs.

Once it gets halfway down, even an extreme twist on the bar (like, almost parallel to the lines) will not keep it from landing on the water, regardless of whether or not I pull the bar in. I have learned that if I grab the upper steering line and give it a sharp pull, to the point that it actually deforms the kite, then the kite will rotate 60-90 degrees and start to fly upward again. But this turns out to be a very bad habit...

It works OK on the water; as long as I pull one or the other line every few seconds, I can keep the kite more or less overhead, sort of. It does not usually pull very strongly when I do this, since it's at the edge of the window. But ...

I was landing and walking up the upper-launch beach at 3rd today, with the kite under control at 45 degrees at the edge of the wind window. Then the kite started drifting toward the ground, and I did my standard move... and was dragged and yanked off my feet. I hit the release on the first try, before I even hit the ground, so I was unhurt. But I don't want to fly this kite over land again until I get this figured out. I know 3rd can be a bit gusty and lull-y, so that might have contributed to this incident, but it happened within 2 seconds after I pulled the line.

I've been kiting three years, several dozen days total, can go upwind and usually land small jumps, so I'm fairly new but not totally clueless. Is there some trick I don't know, for keeping the kite at the edge of the wind window at 45 degrees or lower? Should I not be depowering all the way (bar all the way out)? Or is this kite somehow adjusted wrong?

Thanks...

[tgautier]

Can't say what is wrong but I can give you an example of experienced kiting control vs not in that situation.

Yesterday there were some extreme lulls on the water. In the past if my kite was off to one side that meant a guaranteed dip in the water and a long painful re launch sequence.

But I've gotten to the point where that doesn't happen anymore. A sharp turn and making sure to sheet out always turns the kite up and back to the top of the window.

The key here is sheeting out. In the past I wanted more power in that situation so I would naturally pull in on the bar and my technique for steering usually had some amount of pulling in.

I now know how to turn the kite without changing the angle of attack (twist the bar don't just pull on one side) and have a better feel for the sweet spot of the kite being able to fly.

Which brings me to your situation - I can only think maybe you haven't trimmed the kite right - it could be over or undersheeted. And or it could be that the lines on your bar are uneven - is the kite new or used? If used you might want to read up on tuning lines as the front lines tend to stretch after use and should be adjusted.

Another anecdote that might be useful is once I flew a friends slingshot kite. On my kites I'm used to setting the depower all the way in on the beach. I did the same for his kite and it flew all crazy - wouldn't stay stable at all in the window. Turns out the trim strap on the slingshot bar is so long you can easily undersheet it by a huge amount - and that was what was wrong - trimming the power strap out a little totally fixed the problem.

Btw unless I'm missing something all kites eventually fall out of "neutral" eventually - some are just slower than others.

[adamrod]

it sounds to me like your kite is extremely under-sheeted.

you shouldn't have to grab the physical line to turn the kite. are you sheeting in when you pull on the bar?

with the bar sheeted in (bar against the chicken loop, depower strap at full power) the length of all 4 lines should be equal. check your line lengths (attach all 4 lines to a fixed object, and then tension them and make sure none of them droop when the bar is sheeted in)

so, check your line lengths and get back to us.

other than that, no kite is stable at 12:00 or at the edge of the window. regardless of the kite, it will always fall out of the sky eventually if you park it at 12:00.

[ChrisPhoenix]

Um. One of my center lines is three inches longer than the other three lines. :oops:

"it sounds to me like your kite is extremely under-sheeted."

It may be. The Omega bar has that gizmo that can stop the bar halfway up the cable. I didn't like that, because the bar always hangs up on the little bulge in the cable, so I removed the bulge. So when I let go of the bar, then the bar goes out to arm's length.

Once the kite is drifting downward, pulling the bar toward me does not seem to make it more controllable.

"you shouldn't have to grab the physical line to turn the kite. are you sheeting in when you pull on the bar?"

I'm confused. I thought that pulling on the bar - pulling the bar toward me - was the definition of sheeting in. Yes, when I'm twisting the bar to try to stop the kite's drift to the water, I have tried both pulling on the bar and not. Neither seems to work.

[Aloha]

If the center lines are lengthened relative to the other lines it can create an oversheet / backstall situation

If one center line is shorter relative to the other and they're both going to bridles at equal distance one is going to fly slack and make the kite handle probably pretty funky. I'd definitely ask around the launches with guys who fly that bar and see if another pair of eyes might be able to help you out

Additionally, although this presents an opportune moment to jest about 3 legged Portugese design I will humbly refrain

[ChrisPhoenix]

Oh, go ahead and talk about Cabrinha design. Last year I had one of their harnesses rip to shreds in the middle of the water. I now use a harness I designed myself - not quite as comfortable, but strong enough to use mountain climbing - which none of the Cabrinha or DaKine harnesses are. Continuous webbing, people! Is it so difficult?

(And they wouldn't refund, of course; first told me that it was impossible to adjust incorrectly, then "Of course! if you over-shorten the straps it'll rip.")

[davidllyon]

What kite will reliably stay in the air if you let go of the bar completely? Have to keep at least a little tension in the back lines to keep steering control.

"kite directly overhead with the bar all the way out, and let go of the bar"

On another note, the omega 9m was my first kite, I won't ever sell it because I hate the way it flies, wouldn't want to burden anybody with it.
- David

[kitenaked]

Wherever you are kiting, I am guessing you can get help.

3rd Crew - Steve Gunn, Ramsey or Adam R.

If you are in Sherman, I will help.

Chris

www.kitenaked.com

The Wainman Hawaii Source

[knyfe]

you got into kiting quite late otherwise you would know not to leave EVER your kite at 12. Nowadays the kites do it quite good but in the "old" days they would die right there. Now they only do it when its gusty. Just dont do it. Especially as you still can get lifted straight up. Keep it at 11 or 1. That was your first problem.

THe second one seems to be the trimming of your kite lines. Let someone else fix them up for you the next time you got out, or follow at least first the recommended trim procedures of your manufacturer. Every one has a different setting so I dont want to recommend the wrong one here ... and you run in trouble. So check the cabrinha website.

Ask at the beach for help, Ask at the beach for help .... G