4-Line or 5-Line for beginner?

[highvoltj]

Hello All,
I finally took my first lesson session with Boardsports in Alameda...my instructor and co-instructor, Steve and Aster.....These Guy's Rock!!! They were very informative and both have great sense of humor's!!! Fortunately for me....Anyway, we learned using 4-line control bar and kite configurations with swivel on front control lines. These were easily controlled after learning the proper technique, and hopefully with more time in the water I will become more proficient and less of a danger or nuisance as a "Newbie"
My question is, as I got a killer deal on 2 brand new still in the wrapper '09 North Rebel kites (9-12m) with 5th Element control bars with the "Iron Heart II" system both being 5 line kites, am I going to have a difficult time during my learning stages with these? I have seen an available swivel for the front lines still utilizing the 5th line for less tangling (Swivel Controller2) or should I sell these and get a simpler 4-line set-up as utilized during my lessons....or do I really even need to worry about this right now? I just dont want to get out there and crash my kite and have to do a "self-rescue" due to line tangle.
I hope I am not being too critical, and any enlightenment is greatly appreciated.
Thankyou in advance!
Jon

[mcfly777]

Hi Jon
Welcome to the sport. You're off to a good start by getting proper lessons. Talk to your instructors about adequate equipment for you.

While I think it's great that you have this great deal, I think a 2009 kite is obsolete and there are better (read: safer) kites out there. I am not advocating that you go out and buy something brand new at full price. You'll likely beat it up as you learn (we have all done it). You're probably better off getting something 2013 or newer that had light use and was properly cared for. There are plenty of opportunities here at BAK where you can meet face to face and evaluate the kite yourself. Will you be getting the same killer deal? Probably not but you will have a safer kite. Unfortunately this is not a sport that you can get something cheap and go, as so much is driven by safety. Think of your equipment as a parachute. Would you buy an old cheap parachute? Probably not. Invest in adequate equipment.

Did you read me mention 4 vs 5 lines? No. Because they all have pros and con's. It's more a matter of personal taste. You'll hear both sides as you read about it.

Best of luck and stay safe.
Leo

[CdoG]

Really..
Ahhh come on McfLy!!



You can learn on any kite 09 or older...06 vegas....even
Just get to know your safty's
Spend time flying your kite

I spent last year on a 09 12 m rebel

[dz]

HIvoltagj,

Please do not put off learning and practicing self-rescue. Any kite can tangle beyond relaunch, and even new kites can have failure.

The 2009 Rebel flies stable, and has good range. 5th line on Rebel is both part of the design and a safety feature. But it is a bummer is when the kite rolls & the 5th line gets wrapped around the kite. The 2009 model is without a center strut, it makes the kite lighter, just keep the kite well inflated.

[mcfly777]

Really..
Ahhh come on McfLy!!



You can learn on any kite 09 or older...06 vegas....even
Just get to know your safty's
Spend time flying your kite

I spent last year on a 09 12 m rebel

Yeah I am not saying it can't be done. I have a 2010 Cult that I use sometimes. It's just that it's not ideal, and a 2012 used kite will not be super expensive anyway. If those that know North kites better (I certainly don't) see no problem (or not much difference) between a 2009 to 2012 (safety wise) then go for it!

Leo

[CdoG]

I was just trying to go back to the future. ..
Any kite can kill you.
So spend time learning your kites saftys
Also spend time practicing your self rescue in shallow water maybe at the end of your session
Will a 2015 kite help you progres faster..
Not if your kite flying skill isn't up to par


I think 2015 north rebels are more powerfull then 09's

Jon if your afraid of tangling up your lines in a crash..you learn very quicky how to adjust
Letting go of the bar for a bit can unwind them in some circumstances no swivel needed
But a swivel is a nice featur every convenient and can be considered a safety device

[le noun]

Unless your killer deal is to get both those kites for $600, I think that you are better off buying from the classified here or on ikitesurf.
Kite value plummet drastically as soon as you take them off their bags and fly them.
I know I usually sell mine for 40% off retail price after just one season and that's for the ones that don't get any repairs at all...
Just remember that if you are buying used, take said kite out of the bag and pump it. Look for repairs and patches. Check the pressure after 15 min chat with the seller just to make sure it's not leaking. That's about it.
That's to respond to the price issue.

To respond to the fifth line issue, not having a swivel is not gonna be much of a problem at first since you're not gonna loop your kite during transition nor are you gonna throw repeated back roll. As explained, the 5th line is a neat feature for easy relaunch in light wind, but can become a pain in the neck if your kite tumbles on itself and wrap around that fifth line.

Hope this helps. Congratulations for doing the right thing and taking lesson and asking questions here.
Welcome to the sport!

[highvoltj]

Thankyou All so much for your comments and insight....I have already had the experience of "line tangle" with a smaller, older Ocean Rodeo 4.5m, 5-line kite when it crashed as I was ripping down the beach with a mountain board...it was much easier to walk down the beach and untangle, yet still a 'pita'! I can only imagine what is instore during my journey in learning...It will be way worth it either way!! I am Stoked that I finally took lesson's and cant wait to progress!! I did find a swivel which I think will work...A SWITCH Controller2 swivel system which can be integrated with my existing 5-line system....I know that "Newer is Better", but man!!! These are brand new kites, bars and lines and I got a great deal on them!!! So I will probably at least for now, stick with what I have...and yes, I will for sure practice self-rescue's and landing and launching in the water...hopefully , well out of the way of you expert's!! LOL
Thankyou Again, and see you on the beach!!!
Have a Great Day and Pray for Wind!!!!
Jon

[dz]

Definitely pump the kite before you buy to check for leaks. The most likely cause of leak on Rebel are delaminated valve/s, & the first suspect is the dump valve. This is not difficult to repair yourself (contact cement seems to work well, no need to buy new valves). Heat causes the delamination of the valves, so as much as possible keep your kites away from long periods of heat.

[jjm]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure the Switch swivel would work. I think it is too bulky for use in your North 5th Element system. It is meant to be installed between the chicken loop line and front lines a meter or so from the bar/you. You'd probably need to modify your setup where the 'Y' split is closer to the kite. If you're really insistent look into setups with "mickey mouse ear" swivels, and make sure there is a spot to allow the fifth line to pass through. Or look around on ebay for newer ironhearts, I think there is a swivel (manual?) at the chicken loop.

KISS. Without a swivel the 5th line and center line (pre-Y split) will wrap around each, but your safety will not be compromised unless you've got a ton of rotations in. As mentioned earlier, at this point you're not going to be (intentionally or not) throwing too many kiteloops or doing rotations. Just make sure to sort it out when you run out your lines (or every other time, just do a visual inspection).

I remember the 2009 Rebel having a tendency to invert, so make sure to pump it up hard? Maybe research on kiteforum techniques to recover from a kite inversion (when it goes inside out) and how to deal if you happen to have the 5th line get wrapped around the canopy.